Out of the Reeds Episode 3: Create Anyway

Join host Natasha Preckajlo and Kristin Cronic as she goes into her journey from military officer to mother to full-time artist shows how life’s chaos can fuel creativity. In this episode, she shares how motherhood became a catalyst for deeper artistic expression, transforming setbacks into inspiration for her luminous paintings.

Discover how Kristin navigated leaving the military, a flooded home, and societal expectations to carve out her creative space. Her story challenges the myth that life’s challenges diminish creativity; instead, they deepen it.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking resilience and permission to create without apology. Kristin’s insights illustrate that creativity is a vital part of our humanity, ready to flourish even when life is messy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hey everyone. Welcome to Out of the Reads with me, Natasha Percagulo. Usually poetry is a part of each of the episodes that we've done. And also on Fridays, I host a Poetry Friday on Instagram and social media to highlight something that's been really important in my journey through motherhood and things that we'll get to today. But in light of our guest, Kristen Cronick, she is an amazing visual artist. She's actually someone that I met through a mutual friend. Our kids were all at the same birthday party together, and we just started talking. But I wanted to be able to share in something that's also a part of my creative process as well as a spiritual process. You'll hear in the interview that actually gets touched on. So as a nod to that, I figured instead of a poetry reading this time, I'd like to share cards with you. So this is a deck that I have. It's called the Sacred Creator's Oracle. And it's something that's gotten me through a lot of my time as a creative. The imagery is very artistic and it's very much aligned with being a creator. So I figured I'd shuffle and I'd pull a card. And then we'll get into some other things that really highlight what today is about with Kristen from an artistic but a creative perspective as well. And how that creativity aligns so well and sometimes so beautifully with our motherhood or our parenthood. So let's do it. Let's pull a card. And this one just fell out of the deck. And uh I love when cards fall out of a deck just because it's like the universe kind of telling you here it is. This is the thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

This one's yours. So let's see. Ambush fear with ferocious dream. I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

It's got the elephant on it. Elephant's one of my favorite animals. And I really like that because it speaks to even today, even with recording. I felt like, you know, is this does this even matter? Like, should I continue on with this? And I know I highlighted that last time, but it's true. Like it's really true. Sometimes I, you know, doubt can sometimes creep in, which is the fear, right? But I really do believe in this podcast. And I believe in the highlighting of things that don't honestly get talked about, or, you know, now in now in this day and age, everything is like trivialized or a joke or, you know, just a sound bite. But I really do feel this stuff is important. These are real stories. So thanks for that. You know, I wasn't necessarily planning on going here with cards today, but in listening and and talking with Kristen and hearing her discuss spirituality and creativity, I was like, this is the ticket. I want to share this with you guys. So thanks for sitting through that with me. And I know sometimes people have feelings about cards and whatnot, but I really just feel like they're so fun and they're full of play. And, you know, whatever is coming through here is really just a representation and a reflection of ourselves. So, you know, if you're working with light, that's what you'll see. And if you're not, then that's what you'll see. So anyway, that's how I process all of that. And again, just more me authentically showing up as me, the things I actually do in my life that really do structure and bring ritual to my life. So thanks for sharing that with me. But today I also really wanted to highlight choosing creativity and the feelings of guilt as mothers that we sometimes face when that is something that we choose. So I know for myself, there was often maybe questions in the ether or in the background or what have you of is this even relevant? Do you really need this? Like, why is this a thing that you should be pursuing? Does this actually bring you money? You know, is this worthwhile work? Is this taking away from your time as being a mom? And I feel like what I ended up combating those kinds of thoughts with was that if my cup is full and creativity is something I hold really dear to myself, not only with writing, but you know, I used to do visual arts when I was younger in high school and in college, and I still craft and you know, I'll knit. And so creativity is something that's very a part of the fabric of who I am. And I always felt like, again, if you can fill that cup, whatever that looks like, specifically right now, we're speaking about creativity and how that really does restore the soul. If you can figure out whatever that looks like, though, for you, if that brings you this joy, if that's filling you up to where you have more of a reservoir to give from, that's worth so much. You know, it's worth all the salt because then you have more to extend, more to give, more of a place to pull from, as opposed to, you know, trying to get water from a dry well. There's so much to be said for when you're able to show up better as a mom, better as a wife, better as a husband, a partner, you know, a friend, whatever. And you start to feel hopefully less guilt. I know I did. I started to feel less guilty about taking time for myself because I know I needed it. I felt less guilty about, okay, mom has her mom time, you know, and kids like I need this space right now. That didn't feel selfish to me anymore. That felt restorative. That felt like you're gonna benefit my kids if I have this time. Otherwise, we're all gonna feel pretty not great if I don't take this time now. And so I just began to work that in and weave that into my life so that it could become a part of what my children understood. And meditating for me was also a way that I did that. Pulling cards, having that time for myself, that spiritual connection to my creativity allowed for me to show up like cleaner in my energy, feeling better as a person and being able to get more to give to my kids. And they they knew that. They'd be like, oh, mom's meditating. We'll see you in 20 minutes. Or sometimes they'd ask, like, hey, can we meditate with you? And I'd be like, sure, come in here. Let's do that. I think all of these things are really important to remember that it's not indulgent, you're not selfish, you're not, it's not frivolous, you know. We always see like in the education system, like the first thing to go are the things that like that we really sometimes need that are so important. Like when we look back in history, when archaeologists are excavating, we look at the artifacts, artifacts, right, of a civilization. We look at the statues that we find, you know, the jewelry that we find, or, you know, the music, the storytelling that's handed down in some of these, you know, oral cultures as opposed to written cultures. And all of those things. It's what makes humanity a rich, rich thing. So I really am so excited to talk about this with Kristen. Hey everyone, I'm here with Kristen Cronick. She is an artist and a phenomenal artist at that. And I figured, why not ask her to share what it's like being a mom, being an artist, and trying to make life work like that in a creative space. So why don't you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Thank you so much for having me first. Such a good conversation. I have three kids, not ages nine, eight, as of Saturday. We have four. So we're we're in a really fun stage right now. And as you said, I am also a working artist. And so for since my middle was born. So eight is how long I've been doing this. Wow. And it's taken a lot of forms over the years.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Oh yeah, I'm I'm so sure. Like, yeah, I mean, what was it like before like what was your art life like before having kids versus like you know, when you started really doing it eight years ago? That's a interesting it's an interesting question.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

I actually think I had less time before I had kids, but that was because of the jobs that I was doing then. Okay. So it's it's connected for sure. I was active duty military at the time, and painting had always been, even in high school, throughout I went to military schools, I did not go to art school. And into my time active duty, art making, listening to early podcasts about arts. My favorite at the time was Savvy Painter Podcast. She still has it though, so it's great. She would interview artists. So I couldn't actually be painting. I was, you know, doing what I could to research and I just loved it. It became this really grounding thing in my life. But I was working full-time and the military is very demanding. So art was very much like very late. I would do this. My husband was gone when he was deployed and I was home. Right. Now I spent my time. So I guess in some ways I had more time, more reliable time. When we had my oldest, my daughter, I had gone into that pregnancy really optimistic about staying in the military. I had found kind of a path that would allow me to be home a little bit more than the one I was leaving. Like, cool, I'm gonna like have my baby, I'm gonna keep making art, I'm gonna do this. I had like it had this whole thing lined up. I had already applied to MIT, it was through the news that they were gonna cover it. I had this big plan and then I had my daughter, and everything changed. Actually, I think I had a gut feeling in the hospital, but I was like not in a place to actually acknowledge it. I'm like, this isn't what I want. And I kind of was like, I I'm not gonna stop painting and I'm not gonna stop being a mom. So I ended up resigning while on maternity leave. And it's not like a two-week notice, it's more of like a 10-month notice. So okay, yeah, I was about to ask how easy was that to do? It was hard. It was very hard transition. It's a huge identity change. Like there's a lot of veteran resources dedicated to transitioning out of the military for a reason. It's everything that you know, and there's a language to the military that's different than civilian life. So it was a pretty dark time. So in that 10-month period, I had to go back to work, just government contracts, you know, put my three-month-old in daycare, didn't pay much during that time. And then I got pregnant with my second, my son, who's almost eight. I was like six weeks pregnant when I actually processed out of the military. And I'm giving you the long story, I hope you don't mind. That's okay. I like the long story. Yeah, so I was very early with him. And then I had a job in sales lined up. So at that point, I was like, I'm gonna keep kind of doing what I'm doing, but like slowly, maybe in a couple years, I'll be a working artist. So I got out of the military on a Thursday, and then on Sunday morning, so like three days later, our house flooded during a hurricane. And it was this just like life kind of hit me like a truck. And I mean, we it was one of those, like a lot of people were in this position. We weren't expecting it. Um, we like left with like a naked wet baby and our wet dog and like a backpack of like diapers. Like that was it.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Literally with the like clothes on your back.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, yeah. Like my car flooded. We had to, you know, chuck, it was total. It was just one of those kind of dramatic moments, and we had I like just gotten out days prior and you know, kind of came back to it. Like we ended up only getting about a foot of water in our house, but that's enough to like gut everything. Like you lose everything that got wet. Of course. And I so you know, I'm pregnant, I'm a new mom at this point. I'm going through this identity crisis of not being in the military anymore after 10 years when I really hadn't planned on leaving. I was in the sales job and I that's where I learned that's not a great fit. But at that point, I I was kind of needed to see through the pregnancy because that was my health insurance. And so I hit kind of rock bottom during that time for every reason. And I turned again to painting. And I was like, oh man, oh boy, that's saying something, and it says something that as we were like in the hour it took to leave our house that I saved, like I put my pants away. Like it had revealed itself as a priority that I hadn't noticed before. And so I was like, you know what? I'm gonna try to do is under the guise of staying home with my son. My my daughter was in preschool from from being active duty. So I was like, I don't want to want to change that environment for her, but I'm gonna stay home with baby. It's easier just to say that I'm a stay-at-home mom and to admit to people that I'm an artist. Like one of them was a lot more socially acceptable than the other. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm gonna give it six months. Like that's kind of how long I had wanted. I didn't, I was not ready to go back to work with my daughter. So I was like, I kind of want to stay home with him a little longer, and I'll just kind of like use that time to like see if I can make this work. And then like six months turned into 15 months, and all of a sudden I was making just enough to kind of like help cover some proportion. Like it wasn't much, but we were able like at the time we were we were we were making it work, we were living really frugally. Right. And so for a period there, I had both kids in full-time daycare, which was such a privilege. And again, it was it was like we were not saving any money then. We were, we were kind of coming, it was a it was a stressful time, but it was enough to kind of get by. And I kind of used those early years of them to dive deep into like really what I had wanted to do and these ideas that I had had for a long time. And so I know that's probably the opposite of what a lot of moms do because they want to like stay home toddlers. That's that's a rough age group to it is to stay home with. So I yeah, it wears on you. It does. And and so I was like in a perfect scenario, I'm using these early years to kind of like set a foundation for myself, and then by the time they're in elementary school, I can kind of back off and hopefully feel more stable. And it it it's that's where I'm at now. Like my oldest are in second and third grade, and I now get to like be home. Like I work from my studio at home, and my kids walk home from school, so now it's like I actually have less time to create now than I did when they were little, right? But they're able to take care of themselves more and their bikes are in my studio like themselves. So I feel really lucky now at the stage that it I'm at. But to answer the question in a long way, it becoming a mother was the impetus for me becoming a working artist. And so they kind of happen at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Yeah, I think that's so interesting because I feel like at least for me on my journey and what I've you know, interviewed with some of the other women and things like that that I've been talking to, it's just like motherhood seems to be the catalyst for getting some things that you needed to get to where you need to be. It it's like that's the jumping point somehow.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah, I noticed that I was like, I I need art in my life, like and it made me very obvious to me. And I was kind of this point, I'm like, if I don't absolutely love whatever this thing is that's taking me away from my family, I kind of had no tolerance for it. Like in my 20s before I had kids, it was fine. And then all of a sudden, as I became a mom and I became like ferociously protective of my time and energy, they don't deserve my leftovers, and obviously life is not that clean, they still get the leftovers plenty of days, but ultimately if the work that I'm doing isn't fueling me, then this isn't gonna work. My kids deserve better than that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

And they deserve better, and we deserve better, you know. Like, because I find so many times it's like you're just like at the bottom of the barrel anyway. And if you're at least feeling like what I'm doing down there or what I'm doing is filling my cup, then I have so much more to give, you know. So yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. You know, in terms of like your artwork, obviously it's it's beautiful. I don't know if you know, if you haven't anyone who's listening, if you haven't looked up Kristen's work, you should because it's amazing and it's gorgeous. And is that something that you had? I mean, most of your work that I've seen has to do with nature and landscapes and and forestry. Is that something that you were doing prior to or always had an interest in?

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah, I as I as I m alluded to, I took every like art class I could in high school. There were not art classes in military school, so I didn't take any there, but I did like, you know, personal research there. During, I would say for like four years or so before I had my daughter, I had some space to pursue more of like a self-taught education. I hate the term because I still had teachers, it just wasn't in a formal instance. Yeah. I found people who could teach me what I wanted to know. So I spent a lot of years just like learning painting and just kind of a bit of a traditional way. I think in like a year, there was this one period, maybe 15 months, I was painting once a week. I would do a still life from from observation from life. Um and his this my his name is Paul Ladnier. He's a local Jacksonville artist. He's wonderful, he's been around forever. He was so generous to me. I drove him crazy, and I know I did. And you know, I'm looking back. Sorry, Paul, if you're listening, he would set up a still life, and I'm like, okay, you have three hours to finish this, and and then you have to do one every week. So every week I would also set one up at home and do it and then bring it in. So I was on pace for a while, and that's kind of where like the whole thing finally set in. It was like this pre-intense period. So I would say I like during that time. I was still deploying, uh, you know, we were trying to get pregnant, we were all these all these things. All the life that was happening. And I had like my grandmother passed away, or she was getting sick. I think we'd actually sold her home, but there was still like this like grieving process. Ironically, I was drawing plants, painting dead flowers. That was after I was like, okay, I'm starting to have my own ideas versus just like doing these things that like a teacher's telling me to do. I don't know. It was like at the same time, I was I I've I've connected with mentors my entire time. That I mean, that's I feel like there's always kind of something in my ear that's been like helpful. So I was in the this mentorship group with Antrece Wood of the Savvy Painter Podcast, who she was wonderful, and she had asked this question. It's like, what is that thing that you want to paint? Like we were talking about this idea, and this would have been like my daughter was born in 2016, and then 2018 is when I started this series. So I was still kind of like figuring myself out, and it was like I just have these images of trees in my head. Like these trees mean a lot to me personally in a place with heavily wooded areas, and and she's like, Well, then you should do it, and then so I did, and that was like my son was born in May of 2018, and I had my first world show of these trees in May of 2019, so it was it was good. I didn't even realize that crossed over the way it did, but yeah, a year later. So I mean obviously the way I've always related to the world has been since becoming an artist has been through nature, mostly plant forms.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah. No, it's really beautiful. I mean, your artwork is just it's so luminous, and um, I've really enjoyed getting a chance to like witness it and see it and know you more through your artwork. Yeah, no, I think that's really amazing. Oftentimes, and I heard you say in the beginning, you know, you had alluded to the fact that it seemed more socially acceptable to say that you're a stay-at-home mom and pursuing art than just saying I'm pursuing art. There's like something around that. And I remember you had referenced to me, you told me about reading the name of the book. It's by Amy Oh, right here.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

It's so good. Yeah, we need your art, right? Exactly. Stop messing around and make some. Yeah. I listened to that and she alludes to the same fact as like there's this we're not allowed almost to be artists. It's like, oh, you think you're gonna get off easy and like do something that you love and make stuff? Like, that's not that's not real. Like, that's not what people do. You know? How did you live with that, or how do you combat that, or how does that fit into your life now?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I I can answer that with for one, it's it's still ongoing. Like I have come to terms with it. Like, I no longer feel like self-conscious about being an artist, calling myself an artist. Like I worked through a lot of that, like I really embrace this. I know in my bones this is what I need to do. Right. But I still don't love to have the conversation casually. I just don't want to get into it. And and it there's a lot there. Um and that's still a struggle. Like I was adjunct drawing teacher professor, and that was always a really nice one to give people. So I think it's ongoing, even though I worked through a lot of the sludge, the rest of society doesn't necessarily follow that. And sometimes I'm like, it's just not worth getting into. But where the confidence comes from is probably just like looking to mentors and to people who have been doing this. And I would think one of the most influential moments, I mean, a lot of it doesn't. Tie back to the military, like they're all interconnected. But I um my very first ship that I was on was named after Winston S. Churchill. And my very first day, I remember being shown where the officers eat, and they had like a print of his as in he was a painter. And I did not know that then. I didn't know that now. He has a book of his thoughts on painting, and it's called, I want to say his book is called Painting as a Pastime, but a lot of these mixed stuff. I need to like double check that. But I of course was like in that moment, I was like, oh my gosh, like tell me more. So I like researched it and he painted like I want to say like throughout his time as prime minister, like painting coexisted with his life. And there was this like moment that I'm like, well, if he can do it, then I can too. Like, why can't I do it too? Right. It's a matter of, you know, I I think that right there like healed me in a way, but it still doesn't mean that I trust everybody with that. Like sure, sure. Sometimes people would know, like on the ship, that I was an artist, but I wouldn't, and it wasn't something I broadcasted because it brought me peace and joy. And you don't you don't just like offer that for people to give their opinions, right? Like 100%. A hundred percent. Now I care less, but like then it was really fragile and precious to me. Now I'm like you've worked through it more.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting that you say that because we were so I had on this past Friday, and it's like a series that I'm doing locally with women for the the Art of Motherhood, the book that I wrote. So it's kind of like a book group, and we we dissect some things from the book, but it's also about fostering connection, community, and art, like expressing yourself through the written word. So, you know, I I kind of opened up a little bit about myself in terms of the fact that not only am I a therapist, but I also do energy work and healing work in that way. And when I was saying that to one of the women, she's like, Oh my gosh, that's even more interesting. That's so cool that you do that. But like you, it's like I offer that only in certain spaces, right? In certain places. Now, of course, I guess I've offered it on a podcast. So, you know, it's something that I'm sharing and opening up more about myself. But it's so interesting to hear you say that, but it's like that's a piece of you that feels a little sacred, or you're working through how to like see yourself in that light and not just in one way that most people know you. Yeah. So it's really cool that you had that your own arc. And something that made me think of that too is it's so interesting that you were in the military. That's something so like heavily masculine and so heavily like, I mean, like, it's like on one opposite side of a pole, and then you have an artist and a mother that's like on the other side of the pole. It's like so like two opposing forces of masculine and feminine. I love that. I think that that's not something that normally sits within like when we think of an artist, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I well, for one, I love to put myself into situations that forces me to be uncomfortable. Uh-huh. It's fun to keep people guessing. And also they're more connected than people realize. I think I'm a better mom in many ways because I was an officer. My time in the military has informed the way I mother. Right. And for worse, there's things I've taken, there's things that I've left behind, you know. I mean, it's all part of it. And sure, yeah, it's it's and also there's a lot of creative people in the military. The environment doesn't foster it, but that doesn't mean they're not there. And they have a way of like letting themselves be known, you know, like people make music and they write and they do all sorts of really cool things within the spaces.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

I think that's amazing. And I love that that highlighting that you like the layering of yourself. And you know, we're dynamic people, we're not just like one thing, you know. And so it's nice to know that like even in a place that we typically associate with a certain kind of way, you know, it's not like that all the time. Like the the people that are in that space, right, are still the the tapestry of that structure. So it's really cool to hear that. And that's why I was like, oh my gosh, I would love to interview you because your your perspective is so unique.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

That's something I tell my students a lot, because my undergrads in engineering and I went to military school and I served in the military, and now I'm an art professor, and a lot of them see that as a step down. I'm like, I don't see it that way. I see it as like a coming home to what I truly love and like feeling really confident. Yeah, but it's also fun to be like, you can be a lot of things in your life, and especially like that's a hard age, like 18 to 23, 24. I'm like, I mean, in some ways, there's you know, you're in this shelter of school, but also you have so many unknowns ahead of you. And it is nice to be like late 30s now and be like, listen, like you can change your mind. You can never touch your dream. It's okay. Like all these things add up to the end. I'm like, if I'm just here to tell you that. Also, I'm here to challenge your, you know, preconceived notions about who engineers are, who artists are, who military people are, who parents are, right? It's like, yeah, we see these dynamic and complex people beneath all these labels, and that's what keeps things interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that you being able to have had a portion of your time where you were also like adjuncting, you know, and being a professor and and getting a chance to work with that age range where things are very like, we don't know. It's an age of transition and just a time and flux that you were able to bring some perspective like that. Cause I think that's so valuable, you know, to be able to share your experience and not having it just have looked like this linear trajectory.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

That's really cool. Yeah. So now that you're on this side of things, you know, like your kids, like you said, are getting older and you know, you you mentioned taking a break, you know, from from maybe adjuncting for a little bit. What do you feel like is your next phase or what are you looking to for yourself? I know, I know like the million-dollar question, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:18

I mean, I have I've tried a lot of things in the past eight years, and I have done a lot of things that I needed to do to make a living, a modest living, but a living nonetheless. And in that, there's definitely some burnout that happened a couple years ago that I just kind of started to like, okay, it's it's time. Like these things served me and then they didn't. And like painted weddings for five years. Those were a really great stable source of income that it they made me a better painter. And then I just hit a place where I'm like, my kids are more active on the weekends now, and I don't want to miss that. Like, that was the never the point of being a working artist was to miss a Saturday of games, you know. So in that space of burnout, this was 2024. I was like, I've had this idea for these really big paintings for years. Since I did my first horror show, I'm like, I really want to act on this, and I but I need to step away some from some things that I've been doing in order to do this. And then just I got some like some luck. My husband got a raise that really helped, like full, you know, full transparency there. It kind of took some pressure on me. I ended up winning a grant through the city that was for like artists, and it was enough for basically to me say no to weddings for you know, six or eight months and go from there. Right. And so I was like kind of with those two things. I was like, okay, I have the headspace, I kept teaching to at least like act on this and just kind of start to be do a lot of journaling. I I do a lot of that of like what is it? Because it's very easy to like be a squirrel about all my fun ideas, but then those ideas take up time and energy and they do. So it's like sometimes it's like, okay, I've learned how to maybe just catch it in a sketchbook in 10 minutes. This is like completely carry out a series. Like sometimes it's not the right thing for that series to happen. Like, give it a minute, it'll be there in two years. Right. And so I just had a solo show of those giant trees, and that's where you you came, which was so fun. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And so from here, I'm not sure. I in the past I've I've had my work go certain places, and these feel different to me. They're they're all back here. If you're so I I really would like to enter, you know, be more part of the contemporary art discourse. I'm doing a lot of applying to shows with them, you know, and and just I'm putting myself out there a lot. I'm getting a lot of no's, pretty much all no's. That's par for the course, you know. That's not always a bad thing, even if it's a no, you still had curators look at your work. My dream would be to continue these more exhibition type places where there's an experience around art. And so at the moment, I'm giving myself like six to 12 months to see what I can do in the meantime, developing other bodies of work that are related, but there's actually a lot about motherhood and one I'm in my current schedule of. But we'll see. I don't know. Like, this is probably the most unmoored and unclear I've felt about the future in a very long time. But I feel like my work is ready for a bigger stage. And so that's where I'm like, I'm trying to find those places.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Well, that's awesome. I mean, I totally hear that and see that for your work and for you. I mean, you know, it sounds like you've done a lot of refinement and the the trials that you even alluded to that weren't necessarily to do with your art, but obviously to do with your life. I feel like those kinds of trials that we go through refine refine us in a way that we don't even necessarily know about at the time. You know, but then it's like as you're doing these things, it's like you're pulling from a place that you've already been sharpened from, you know. And so I think that that's amazing to see that, you know, in the face of the unknown, as like with with the life of art can come rejection, like you mentioned, or, you know, what are things gonna look like financially? Or but like just even hearing your own journey, it's like, okay, I can see how you've been given something, some space, some grit to make it to the next stepping stone. So I think that's really amazing. Thank you. Yeah, that's really awesome. So one thing that I'm curious about too is what does, because we talked about motherhood, we talked about life, you know, and your art, but specifically with your art, like what does it give you that like nothing else in your life can?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

I think in a way that nothing else has. I don't know if can is the right word for me to do that. Yeah, that's a good point. Things, but yeah, it I mean, I think going back to that deep pit that I was in after getting out of the military and painting was the only thing in that time that could get me just to feel centered. Like I mean, like this was before I had like understood anxiety medication, like I absolutely should have been medicated then. I am now. It's great, you know, it gave me a lot of freedom, but then I wasn't there. And so given all of that change and uncertainty, the fact that painting was like to paint was then to eat. Like I couldn't like eat well until after I painted, like it just calmed my nervous system, and that's still where it is. Like it's such a source of centering and meditation for me. Uh maybe even prayer. I don't know. Like, that's a different conversation when I'm painting a form. I'm at a point now with skill where I don't have to like think too much. It feels kind of like I'm fluent. So it really is fun because my subconscious is working, not my conscious. Yeah. So it's like there's something just really sensual about paint and color and like finding these moments and then so centering it. There's a very much like a presence with living my life as a human and as a mother. I mean, motherhood is so much a part of my life. No, they are. To where if there is a piece that is like calling me, I usually use the process of making it is to uncover why it called me to begin with. So usually there's some truth in that where it's like, like, I needed this to like mother myself here. Or the place for me to just sit with a question. Like lots of times there's these kind of, I don't know, existential questions that I just kind of sit with it. I think this painting is that was what I was thinking about the entire time while painting it. And so it does feel kind of like meditation in a sphere of a way.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

100%. That's exactly what it strikes me as is very spiritual, very ritualistic and intentional. And I think so much what I love about art and creativity is that it gets us back to something that I think we've just been missing, something such a human quality with so much technology nowadays as we sit here with all the tech that I'm in front of. But, you know, like it just brings us back to like, I don't know, something sacred, you know? So I think that I love hearing you talk about that. It really uh really resonates in a way that also sounds very tangible and like not so far removed from because I feel like sometimes I've talked to people and they're like, oh, I have like no creativity, I have no creative bone in my body, I'm not that's not me or this or that. And I'm just like, I feel like you could lean in in any capacity. It doesn't have to look like someone who's trained as an artist or who's gone to school for that. It could look like, I don't know, doodling, you know, or whatever. You know, that's that's creation. So I love hearing you say that in a very accessible way. It sounds accessible to me.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Yeah. I mean, for me, the tactility is a huge part of it. Like, I need like 10% digital in my life, but I'm like ultimately, like the the way a pencil feels on paper, I'm holding it, is like very just like that calms me down, and that's taken me some time to realize. I'm like, okay, this is gonna be heavy on the digital side. Like, I need to treat it as a different part of my my work, not the part that I set up. Yeah. But that's not the case for everybody. I do think late like younger generations have grown up in a way that maybe we were later, you know, so our brains were to be more analog in a way, even though I still can see a difference even in my kids, like when they've spent time on screens versus when they've used their hands and their bodies to do something. Making up games, like creative leadership. My husband, like that's like he is like a natural, like I've never seen someone just like kind of gravitate towards being in like lead a leader in in many ways. And yeah, we'll talk about just like personal challenges and like to hear him just kind of like pull his like he's really interested in it. It's just like it's cool, like that's creativity too. It doesn't have to be anything that's 2D art.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. In closing, you know, is there anything that you would like to leave someone who is a mom who's thinking of a creative life or something with her own art or you know, a dad's own art or anybody's own art that you would encourage them or or something that maybe would resonate with?

SPEAKER_01 37:16

I think creativity it's a force that grows when it feels safe and seen. I almost see it as like a separate entity, like a separate personal way. I get a little bit woo-woo about it, but I don't know. I think it's true. So I think so it doesn't have to become a job. Like it does teach when it becomes a job. I would actually kind of maybe don't don't rush into that. But it's like I think when you allow it to be safe, it starts to then proliferate. And and that can look really small at first. And I know when we're tired and our physical needs aren't met, that's that's hard, right? Like sometimes it is just like rearranging a bookshelf, but like just being enjoying that process, I think is valid. I feel like it's trite, but I actually really do believe it. Like the the idea that you have needs to be made, whatever capacity it can be. I mean, we're not all gonna be New York Times bestselling authors. We don't have control over that outcome most of the time. That's those are beyond our control, but what like these things need to be made, and I think that they should be. And we have more ways than ever now to make them happen. And you know, even if it's it's a small audience, it's still an audience, it's still like it still needs to live. Ideas and creative actually, I I do think this is true. Like creative ideas, creativity, it it's fragile, it wants to leave. I think whenever it's it's not bed, it kind of metastasizes. I think it actually turns into some negative forces too. It turns like I know a meme, like it if I don't paint for a while or like even spend some time with my ideas, it kind of feels like a little black hole, and it's like sucking the life out of me. And I'm like, like this idea wants to live.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

I have to tap back into this.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

It's demanding it right now.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Okay, fine. I'm here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm listening, I promise. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Well, thank you so much for sharing, Kristen. It was it was amazing. Thank you for having me. You're welcome.